| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | Could a poorly translated company anti-trust policy incur 15k Euro of penalty? Thread poster: Angga Rakhman
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Angga Rakhman
Indonesia
Local time: 01:30
German to Indonesian
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Dear Proz.Com translator community
I would like you to help me with this urgent matter. I am very much thank you all for your answers.
I have received a translation project of documents with volume of 20 thousands words from a non-regular client back in February. The document in question are a company's anti-trust policy and anti-bribery policy. Today (after several months without news) the said client came with the accusation that my translation is... See more Dear Proz.Com translator community
I would like you to help me with this urgent matter. I am very much thank you all for your answers.
I have received a translation project of documents with volume of 20 thousands words from a non-regular client back in February. The document in question are a company's anti-trust policy and anti-bribery policy. Today (after several months without news) the said client came with the accusation that my translation is poor, and that they have a re-translation worked done for them and this re-translation work has cost them 15 thousands Euro. They will not pay me for my service and they expect me to pay the 15 thousands Euro incurred.
I have signed agreement with the client, the agreement stated that I must correct or repair any deliverables that do not conform to the specification or acceptance criteria for 12 months period. The agreement does not state any monetary penalty.
So far the client has not provided any proof, such as error list, based on which I could see an indication of poor translation.
In my 8 years translating, I am not that often working on legal translations, but so far my other past clients was always satisfied, and one of them even hire a legal associate to review my translation and in general my translation was good with only small amount of errors to fix.
Now the questions are:
1) If my translation is indeed poor, is it possible that 2 poorly translated company policies can incur 15 thousands Euro of cost for a company? Perhaps not only due to re-translation but also due to legal proceedings that imposed to the company because they have a bad company policies because of my translation?
2) Do you think this client has certain bad intention or some sort, such as avoiding paying me?
3) Is it possible that the client can force me to pay the 15 thousands euro, perhaps via legal authority of some sort or legal proceedings?
4) What steps should I follow to resolve this situation?
Thank you all again,
Angga ▲ Collapse
| | | | Sheila Wilson 
Spain
Local time: 19:30
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| I'm not a lawyer, but here are my 2 cents' worth | Apr 25, 2016 |
Angga Rakhman wrote:
1) If my translation is indeed poor, is it possible that 2 poorly translated company policies can incur 15 thousands Euro of cost for a company? Perhaps not only due to re-translation but also due to legal proceedings that imposed to the company because they have a bad company policies because of my translation?
For the second reason, yes, if your work causes them damage then you could be liable, I believe. But not in this case, because you also say:
I have signed agreement with the client, the agreement stated that I must correct or repair any deliverables that do not conform to the specification or acceptance criteria for 12 months period. The agreement does not state any monetary penalty.
2) Do you think this client has certain bad intention or some sort, such as avoiding paying me?
It's possible, but without seeing the changes and understanding both languages it's impossible to say.
3) Is it possible that the client can force me to pay the 15 thousands euro, perhaps via legal authority of some sort or legal proceedings?
Not with that clause in the agreement, no. They have to follow the terms of that too, not just you.
4) What steps should I follow to resolve this situation?
Send them your invoice if you haven't already done that. I imagine you have. If it's overdue, insist on prompt and full payment. HOWEVER, first you need to find out whether your translation was poor - you must ask to see the editor's work. Then you might want to offer a discount. But the client must provide proof, such as an error list.
They will not pay me for my service and they expect me to pay the 15 thousands Euro incurred.
If the translation really is very poor, then perhaps you should offer a 100% discount. That's for you to decide when you have all the facts. But 15k euro? How on earth do they reach that figure for 20k words? I bet you anything you like that they didn't pay that much!
| | | | | After several months? | Apr 25, 2016 |
Why haven't they paid you yet after several months? Did you check their BB?
Tell them you are going to make a BB entry, and see how they react.
Whether you get the money or no, do not forget to make the BB entry!
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| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Empty post | Angga Rakhman
Indonesia
Local time: 01:30
German to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thanks for the reply Anna. They do not pay me because they claim my translation is poor. | Apr 25, 2016 |
Anna Spanoudaki-Thurm wrote:
Why haven't they paid you yet after several months? Did you check their BB?
Tell them you are going to make a BB entry, and see how they react.
Whether you get the money or no, do not forget to make the BB entry!
| | | | Angga Rakhman
Indonesia
Local time: 01:30
German to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I have sought help from a senior translator and he said my translation is OK. | Apr 25, 2016 |
But perhaps I should hire 3rd party reviewer for neutrality.
What I do not understand is why they were not seeking me to
repair my translation if indeed they have reviewed my
translation. I would gladly perform the due process of
accepting/rejecting corrections from their reviewer as a
normal review processs would do.
And now they said they will get back to me after they have
received the feedback/error list and this is after I prote... See more But perhaps I should hire 3rd party reviewer for neutrality.
What I do not understand is why they were not seeking me to
repair my translation if indeed they have reviewed my
translation. I would gladly perform the due process of
accepting/rejecting corrections from their reviewer as a
normal review processs would do.
And now they said they will get back to me after they have
received the feedback/error list and this is after I protest
their decision via email reply. Why the feedback/error list
is not readily available after almost 3 months?
I am sorry if I have too many questions. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | If I can add | Apr 25, 2016 |
Sheila Wilson wrote:
If the translation really is very poor, then perhaps you should offer a 100% discount. That's for you to decide when you have all the facts. But 15k euro? How on earth do they reach that figure for 20k words? I bet you anything you like that they didn't pay that much!
Claims must be done within a certain period of time (usually 10 days or more but not several months), after several months not only they cannot claim damages, but they are also late for rejecting the job, they should pay your invoice.
I recommend you to add a note in your invoices stating more or less:
"Complaints will only be taken into consideration if they are received in writing within Xxxx days from delivery of the completed work. After this period, all work delivered will be considered as satisfactory. Pursuant to the international legislation on copyright, the translated text belongs to the translator until the invoice has been paid in full".
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| What country's laws apply? | Apr 26, 2016 |
Did the contract contain a clause at the end stating what country's laws apply? That seems like the first question.
The basic tenor of the agreement sounds EU to me and, if that is the case, they probably (and in Germany, certainly) need to demonstrate a very good reason why they did not come back to you with a request for corrections before hiring a third party and charging you for his or her work.
They also need to explain the nature of the "damages" caused by your ... See more Did the contract contain a clause at the end stating what country's laws apply? That seems like the first question.
The basic tenor of the agreement sounds EU to me and, if that is the case, they probably (and in Germany, certainly) need to demonstrate a very good reason why they did not come back to you with a request for corrections before hiring a third party and charging you for his or her work.
They also need to explain the nature of the "damages" caused by your translation: Was someone sued, etc.? Are they claiming that is how much it cost to fix your translation or that they lost future projects or what? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Sounds like a scam | Apr 26, 2016 |
Let me guess, complaints for poor quality came when you started inquiring about payment? If the project was through a "translation company", it sounds most definitely like a scam.
1) Yes, theoretically everything is possible...
2) Yes.
3) As I said, everything is possible. Just not probable in this case. 15K is right in the range of "not small enough to qualify as a small claim in most jurisdictions, not b... See more Let me guess, complaints for poor quality came when you started inquiring about payment? If the project was through a "translation company", it sounds most definitely like a scam.
1) Yes, theoretically everything is possible...
2) Yes.
3) As I said, everything is possible. Just not probable in this case. 15K is right in the range of "not small enough to qualify as a small claim in most jurisdictions, not big enough to be worth legal fees" so I think you're safe. If they want to spend 10K chasing 15K, they can go ahead. There's no way for them to win for damages if they themselves haven't paid your invoice yet. Also, you could easily point out the initial agreement that didn't describe any monetary penalties but did state that you must be given an opportunity to fix or correct any mistakes found. In any case burden of proof is on their side and you're in a much better position.
4) Show good faith by asking for an opportunity to amend your work. Ask for a list of errors. Do what's needed by your contract. If there's no proof of bad quality, then be strict about getting your payment and if it qualifies take it through small claims (or whatever similar process they have in their jurisdiction).
tl;dr
Don't worry about absurd tort claims. Get your payment or write it off as a lesson in business. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 20:30
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Angga Rakhman wrote:
1) If my translation is indeed poor, is it possible that 2 poorly translated company policies can incur 15 thousands Euro of cost for a company?
I find it highly unlikely. However, it is possible that the agency had hired another translator for a rush-fee. Even if that is the case, however, I don't think that they have the right to expect you to pay for it. It was their decision to use a second translator and pay a high fee, and you were not given any opportunity to defend your work.
Perhaps not only due to re-translation but also due to legal proceedings that imposed to the company because they have a bad company policies because of my translation?
Does your contract with the agency include the "hold harmless" and "indemnify" clauses (which basically mean "I will pay for all costs incurred related to my translation, even if I think that those costs were unnecessary and even if they were incurred without advance notice to me")?
2) Do you think this client has certain bad intention or some sort, such as avoiding paying me?
It is impossible to tell.
Angga Rakhman wrote:
What I do not understand is why they were not seeking me to repair my translation if indeed they have reviewed my translation. I would gladly perform the due process of accepting/rejecting corrections from their reviewer as a normal review process would do.
Perhaps they did not "review" your translation in the way that you mean. Perhaps they asked another translator to perform a spot check, and the check came out very negative, and that's when they decided to have it re-translated by someone else.
See, this is the problem with the idea that a translator should be allowed to fix his own errors. If the translator made those errors due to negligence (or: if those errors are due to incomplete client instructions on style, terminology etc), then we can expect him to be able to fix it. But if he made those errors because he was unaware that they were errors, then the translator is unlikely to be able to fix them anyway, unless the reviewer points out the individual errors to the translator, and also re-reviews the translator's corrections afterwards to check if the translator understood the errors correctly.
And now they said they will get back to me after they have received the feedback/error list and this is after I protest their decision via email reply. Why the feedback/error list is not readily available after almost 3 months?
I agree with your sentiment here. The fact that the agency did not have a list of errors available leads me to suspect that they are not the ones who commissioned the re-translation. If so, it would mean that the end-client decided (after the translation was delivered by the agency) that the translation is no good, and had it re-translated by an expensive translator, and now expects the agency to pay for it. And the agency might then be trying to pass off these costs to you.
You mention "3 months", but you don't know how long ago the end-client decided to commission the re-translation. It could easily be just two weeks ago.
[Edited at 2016-04-26 08:28 GMT]
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Angga Rakhman
Indonesia
Local time: 01:30
German to Indonesian
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Thank you all for taking your time answering my questions | Apr 26, 2016 |
I really learn a lot for all of your comments so far. In 8 year translating this is my first time facing this kind of situation, but there always a first time for anything I guess. One of my lesson learned I think is that I have to be better equiped regarding my term of service to protect myself from client's one-sided judgement such as this case.
| | | | Neil Coffey
United Kingdom
Local time: 19:30
French to English
+ ...
| Sounds like a scam | Apr 26, 2016 |
Angga Rakhman wrote:
2) Do you think this client has certain bad intention or some sort, such as avoiding paying me?
I'm confused... if they haven't paid you, then how can the use of your translation have incurred them any legal costs? -- they have no right to have used it in the first place.
If the 15 thousand euros is because of the cost of a re-translation, that's essentially nothing to do with you -- it's their fault for choosing a translation at that price. And irrespective of that, assuming there was a valid agreement in the first place, they either (a) still owe you for the translation, or (b) need to provide much more concrete grounds for why the translation actually does not merit payment.
Unfortunately, from what you say, it sounds like it's probably a scam: it doesn't sound like an actual court case with actual evidence is imminent, but equally, it doesn't sound like it's going to be easy for you to persuade them to pay you...
| | | | Jeff Whittaker
United States
Local time: 14:30
Member (2002)
Spanish to English
+ ...
| You should considering having terms and conditions for working with agencies | Apr 27, 2016 |
Here are just a few sample clauses that would have covered your situation:
"Clause 7. Revision of Translation-Related Deliverables. The Client / Agency agrees to promptly review the translation-related Deliverables upon receipt thereof and to notify the Translator within seven (7) business days of any errors or omissions in such Deliverables. The Translator agrees to rectify the following without charge within a reasonable period of time: outright mistranslation, omission, typo, gra... See more Here are just a few sample clauses that would have covered your situation:
"Clause 7. Revision of Translation-Related Deliverables. The Client / Agency agrees to promptly review the translation-related Deliverables upon receipt thereof and to notify the Translator within seven (7) business days of any errors or omissions in such Deliverables. The Translator agrees to rectify the following without charge within a reasonable period of time: outright mistranslation, omission, typo, grammatical mistake, or non-adherence to any approved glossary (“Non-Subjective Errors”). The Translator’s sole obligation with respect to such Non-Subjective Errors is the obligation to correct the Deliverable at no cost to Client, provided that the Client gives notice of such errors to the Translator within seven (7) business days of Client’s receipt of the Deliverables. Failure to raise an objection within this period shall be considered as approval of the work as delivered. All changes requested by the Client other than non-subjective errors or omissions will be subject to additional charges. The Translator shall not be responsible for alterations to the Translator’s work made by any other person acting on behalf of the Client."
"Clause 10. Payment Terms. The Translator may require deposits or COD payment for certain projects. Unless otherwise specifically agreed in writing, under no circumstances shall the Translator extend credit for more than a maximum of 30 days from the date of the invoice. Any invoice outstanding and unpaid for more than 30 days shall be considered delinquent, and interest shall accrue on all balances outstanding for more than 25 days at the lower of (i) 1.5% per month (18% per annum) or (ii) the highest rate allowed by law. In addition to interest accruing on outstanding balances, the Translator shall also invoice a late payment handling charge of $25.00 to be billed with each reminder statement mailed to the Client in monthly intervals. The Client agrees that any and all fees, costs and expenses, including without limitation reasonable attorney’s fees and disbursements (“Collection Costs”) incurred by the Translator in connection with collection attempts shall be paid by the Client. Any such Collection Costs shall be due and payable to the Translator upon the Client’s receipt of the Translator’s corresponding invoice to the Client."
"Clause 3. Intended Use of Work; Specifications. The Client shall clearly and specifically indicate the purpose and intended use of any work requested from the Translator, as well as any other specifications regarding the services to be delivered by the Translator, all of which must be agreed to in writing by the Translator (the “Specifications”). Specifically, and without limitation, the Client shall indicate in the Specifications whether any documents submitted to the Translator for translation purposes shall be used as or in bids and tenders, any legal actions, including but not limited to court documents, letters rogatory, depositions, etc., contracts of any nature, advertising, printing or publications. The Client shall also make known to the Translator any certification requirements upon making the request and all other circumstances wherein the services to be provided have a direct relation to life and death consequences, i.e., medical technology, service and operation manuals for machinery and industrial/agricultural equipment, tools, government security clearance, etc. It is understood and agreed that the service(s) to be provided by the Translator and/or the translations or other work product to be delivered by the Translator to the Client or its designees (collectively, the “Deliverables”) shall be suitable only for the specific use and purpose disclosed by the Client and set forth in the Specifications, and the Translator shall have no obligation to produce a translation suitable for any other use or for any other purpose or in any context not specifically disclosed and described by the Client. The Client understands and acknowledges that no Deliverables can be certified as accurate or suitable with respect to any use or purpose or in any context except that specifically described by the Client."
"Clause 11. Limitation of Liability; No Warranties. In performing the services, the Translator endeavors to produce accurate, idiomatic translations of the highest quality. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the Client understands and accepts that words and phrases in different languages rarely have an exact correlation, and that no liability is assumed by the Translator for any actual or alleged lack of nuance or impact, in particular, and without limitation, as these may relate to expressiveness of a text and its suitability for use by the Client in any particular activities. The Client agrees that the Translator’s sole and exclusive liability with respect to the text of any translation-related Deliverables shall be to correct Non-Subjective Errors as set forth in Section 7 above.
EXCEPT AS ESTABLISHED ABOVE, THE TRANSLATOR MAKES NO WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, WHETHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED, OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR OTHERWISE, except only as may be contained in such written certification that the Translator may deliver to the Client at the time of delivery of the Deliverables. The Translator shall be under no obligation to provide any such certification unless, and except only to the extent, as specifically agreed in the written confirmation of the Client’s Request delivered by the Translator to the Client.
The Translator shall under no circumstances be liable for any losses, claims, causes of action, expenses, judgments, or damages of any nature or kind, including without limitation, special, direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages or loss of profit or income (collectively, the “Claims”), exceeding the lesser of the invoice amount or the replacement value of the work performed by the Translator, and regardless of whether the Translator has been advised of the possibility of such claims. This limitation shall apply whether such alleged Claims may be due to a dispute, inadequate guidelines, faulty specifications, failure to respond to inquiries, negligence, scheduling, third party service provider failure, wars, riots, acts of God or nature, or any other cause."
[Edited at 2016-04-27 19:49 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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