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Translation Workspace / Lionbridge CAT tool
Thread poster: sasp

Eleftherios Kritikakis  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:44
Greek to English
+ ...
Who runs the joint Mar 12, 2010

I do not know if you have noticed, but the industry is run by non-linguists. Actually, most CEOs and project managers are not even bilingual... especially in the U.S.

They can't undserstand the special nature of this business, and they treat it just like any other business.


 

Laurent KRAULAND (X)  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 17:44
French to German
+ ...
About massive TM's Mar 13, 2010

Claudia Alvis wrote:

I agree with all the above points except this one. What I've noticed with my largest clients is how the quality of their TMs is declining at a steady pace: unproofread translations, multiple translations, massive TMs that don't receive any maintenance, no context fields, overall bad translations (erroneous, literal, lazy choice of words, etc.). I'm talking about some of the largest LSPs that I used to work for--it could be a coincidence, but I don't think it is.


I am sometimes baffled at the content of not so massive TM's (what are 20,000 or even 200,000 or even 2,000,000 translation units after all?) provided by agencies.
Apart from the multiple translation thing, which can be understandable (this is a Trados 5.0 legacy called "multiple matches"), there are basic mistakes in them and nobody seems to care, so they remain untouched for months and years.
In addition to that, and human beings being what they are, I allow myself to doubt that someone, at some point, will correct the mistakes. After all, these are 100% matches, correct? Why would anybody do work for free and change anything?


 

Eleftherios Kritikakis  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:44
Greek to English
+ ...
Boring Mar 13, 2010

The "corporate" language of the 80s that they' re using and the totally predictable structure (low level and low salary employees, middle management that gets fired all the time, upper management playing golf and hanging out at the white-trash sports bars of the area drinking cheap beer), commercial corporations have become the most boring places to work and the most boring partners for business. The only excitement is when their checks are late. Their employees are incredibly boring people as w... See more
The "corporate" language of the 80s that they' re using and the totally predictable structure (low level and low salary employees, middle management that gets fired all the time, upper management playing golf and hanging out at the white-trash sports bars of the area drinking cheap beer), commercial corporations have become the most boring places to work and the most boring partners for business. The only excitement is when their checks are late. Their employees are incredibly boring people as well.

Lately in the western world markets the only exciting or interesting thing is blatant comedy and rogue banking... everything else, including real development, progress and common sense has moved to Asia.
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Felipe Gútiez  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 17:44
German to Spanish
+ ...
Managers and correcting the 100% errors in cloud Mar 13, 2010

Laurent KRAULAND wrote:

Claudia Alvis wrote:

I agree with all the above points except this one. What I've noticed with my largest clients is how the quality of their TMs is declining at a steady pace: unproofread translations, multiple translations, massive TMs that don't receive any maintenance, no context fields, overall bad translations (erroneous, literal, lazy choice of words, etc.). I'm talking about some of the largest LSPs that I used to work for--it could be a coincidence, but I don't think it is.


I am sometimes baffled at the content of not so massive TM's (what are 20,000 or even 200,000 or even 2,000,000 translation units after all?) provided by agencies.
Apart from the multiple translation thing, which can be understandable (this is a Trados 5.0 legacy called "multiple matches"), there are basic mistakes in them and nobody seems to care, so they remain untouched for months and years.
In addition to that, and human beings being what they are, I allow myself to doubt that someone, at some point, will correct the mistakes. After all, these are 100% matches, correct? Why would anybody do work for free and change anything?


That is the point. Correcting a 100% incorrect match should be rewarding 120% money.
Top translators should be paid more for improving the cloud.
Managers of LSPs are not linguists. That is very usual. Managers and ministers are usually not experts. They have to choose the right advisers and take the right decisions. If they fail they have to resign. I don´t see any problem there.


 

Pablo Bouvier  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:44
German to Spanish
+ ...
A brave new world? No thanks, not for me... Mar 13, 2010

Felipe Gútiez wrote:

That is the point. Correcting a 100% incorrect match should be rewarding 120% money.
Top translators should be paid more for improving the cloud.
Managers of LSPs are not linguists. That is very usual. Managers and ministers are usually not experts. They have to choose the right advisers and take the right decisions. If they fail they have to resign. I don´t see any problem there.



Then: Why to pay incompetent and useless ministers and not to choose directly qualified specialists as ministers? At least, this would save a lot of money to the rest of the population and not make us to waste our time investing in a brave new world as like the one some people want endorse us. Really, maybe you feel happy living in the cloud cuckoo land improved by other linnets for free, but I wont. I am sorry.

[Editado a las 2010-03-13 14:52 GMT]


 

GPelletier
Local time: 17:44
English to French
Counting words in Translation Worspace plans Mar 15, 2010

Something made me shiver when I got an answer to one of my questions at the webinar:

Q: are the number of words counted in the plans WWC* words?
A: The way word usage metering works is that only source words in opened segments are counted. The plans are based on source words opened against a TM. As such, the weighting of the words is irrelevant to the word count--we are counting the total number of words opened against a TM. However, re-opening a segment within 60 days--for ed
... See more
Something made me shiver when I got an answer to one of my questions at the webinar:

Q: are the number of words counted in the plans WWC* words?
A: The way word usage metering works is that only source words in opened segments are counted. The plans are based on source words opened against a TM. As such, the weighting of the words is irrelevant to the word count--we are counting the total number of words opened against a TM. However, re-opening a segment within 60 days--for editing or proofreading, for example--will not count again. When a user opens a segment – either a single segment during an interactive translation or a collection of segments during pre-translation – the system deducts the number of source words in the opened segments from the balance of words in the subscriber's plan. Concordance search, analysis, and terminology lookup operations are NOT metered.

* WWC=Weighted WordCount, ie a count of words that applies %ages according to the various types of matches (fuzzy matches, repetitions, 100%, new words)

This means:
- If you're not paid for 100% matches, you still will have to "pay" for them
Eg: I had an update on a 12000-word file that was counted as 300 words WWC. In this case, I would be paid for 300 words BUT 12000 words would be deducted from my Translation Workspace plan.
Woopee.

I'm not even commenting the last 2 parts of the message about how lucky we are not to have words deducted when proofing or doing concordance searches...


G
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Eleftherios Kritikakis  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:44
Greek to English
+ ...
Woopee (2) Mar 16, 2010

@ GPelletier

I do not know anything about Lion's system - but could you please "bold" the last paragraph because I think it's very important.

Because if that's true, then you either discovered a loop in the system (something even Lion overlooked or did not predict), or you probably discovered a method to eliminate the income of a translator within 2-3 years of work in that system. The more the matches accumulate in a large project, the more the translator "pays" for the
... See more
@ GPelletier

I do not know anything about Lion's system - but could you please "bold" the last paragraph because I think it's very important.

Because if that's true, then you either discovered a loop in the system (something even Lion overlooked or did not predict), or you probably discovered a method to eliminate the income of a translator within 2-3 years of work in that system. The more the matches accumulate in a large project, the more the translator "pays" for the matches - is that correct?

Eventually, if a translator wants to check the rest of the file to maintain consistency in an updated part, the translator will end up actually paying money instead of receiving?

How much would that be?

Any calculations anybody?








[Edited at 2010-03-16 05:44 GMT]
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George Hopkins
Local time: 17:44
Swedish to English
Simple answer Mar 16, 2010

No.
Possibly, 'No thank you'.


 

Cruz Losada
Spain
Local time: 17:44
English to Spanish
Are they out of their minds? Mar 16, 2010

GPelletier wrote:

If you're not paid for 100% matches, you still will have to "pay" for them
Eg: I had an update on a 12000-word file that was counted as 300 words WWC. In this case, I would be paid for 300 words BUT 12000 words would be deducted from my Translation Workspace plan.
Woopee.



Congratulations for getting that information. This is even better than it looked at first sight. It means that everytime you use the words you have translated yourself, you will have to pay for them, although you won´t get paid for them by your client. If someone else uses those same words you have translated they will pay for them (not to you, to Lionbridge) but they won´t get paid either by the client. It is just what we all (translators) were asking for.

I have found a peculiar thread about Lionbridge Translation Workspace.
http://www.wahm.com/forum/telecommuting-moms-34/492456-translation-workspace-lionbridge.html
It looks as if Lionbridge in their endless quest to benefit as many people as possible, are addressing not only their vast translator's database or translator's related sites/networks/etc but they are casting their nets into all oceans ("wahm" is a "work-at-home-mums" online magazine). People in the posts sound a bit confused...


 

Speranza  Identity Verified

Local time: 17:44
Spanish to Russian
+ ...
Yes, they are Mar 16, 2010

Maruja Limon wrote:

they are casting their nets into all oceans


They announced that on Twitter about two weeks ago. They also "think this is the future of translation software" and say they "have 1000's of users, millions of words" and "want this to zoom."


 

Roman Bdaitsiiev
Ukraine
Local time: 18:44
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
I owe my soul to the company store Mar 16, 2010


Is anyone old enough to remember that terrific Frankie Laine song "I owe my soul to the company store"?
Workers lived on a company-owned housing estate and were paid in tokens which could be redeemed only in shops on that estate. I visited a "ghost town" of that kind in Chile recently, at a nitrates plant called Humberstone, the name of the entrepreneur who dreamed it up and made his pile. Fascinating - but somewhat grim.
I thought that kind of worker-exploitation died out long ago, but no, it's being revived!
Jenny

I remember now that the song is actually called "Sixteen tons".


[Edited at 2010-03-06 23:25 GMT]


http://bit.ly/cdqyRy


 

Krzysztof Kajetanowicz (X)  Identity Verified
Poland
Local time: 17:44
English to Polish
+ ...
new info Apr 6, 2010

I got some more specific information about this launch and it does not look like a good deal. Plus, there are some other issues with working with the company, which I will not dwell on but which are rather discouraging.

 

Cruz Losada
Spain
Local time: 17:44
English to Spanish
COULD BE AN IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENT. Translation Workspace: A Different Perspective. Apr 18, 2010

I don’t know if any of you have seen this. I was sent the link bellow by a reliable source on Friday. You might want to read it (please read it!!) and if you consider signing it, do so. I think it is a good approach and at least it is an attempt to put forward a joined totally reasonable response.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dFlqU1
... See more
I don’t know if any of you have seen this. I was sent the link bellow by a reliable source on Friday. You might want to read it (please read it!!) and if you consider signing it, do so. I think it is a good approach and at least it is an attempt to put forward a joined totally reasonable response.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dFlqU1hFYXJuOGI4TzM0MmlCcWNUS1E6MQ
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Oleg Prots  Identity Verified
Ukraine
Local time: 18:44
Member (2003)
English to Ukrainian
+ ...
signed Apr 22, 2010

Maruja Limon wrote:

I don’t know if any of you have seen this. I was sent the link bellow by a reliable source on Friday. You might want to read it (please read it!!) and if you consider signing it, do so. I think it is a good approach and at least it is an attempt to put forward a joined totally reasonable response.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dFlqU1hFYXJuOGI4TzM0MmlCcWNUS1E6MQ


Too bad to see this thread die out.
The 60-day countdown to the new era starts next Monday.


 

Fabio Descalzi  Identity Verified
Uruguay
Local time: 13:44
Member (2004)
German to Spanish
+ ...
Signed Apr 22, 2010

Maruja Limon wrote:

I don’t know if any of you have seen this. I was sent the link bellow by a reliable source on Friday. You might want to read it (please read it!!) and if you consider signing it, do so. I think it is a good approach and at least it is an attempt to put forward a joined totally reasonable response.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dFlqU1hFYXJuOGI4TzM0MmlCcWNUS1E6MQ

Although I must clearly state: I have never accepted a reduction in my rates! On the contrary, I am struggling to keep my rates decent and letting other people know that they must not accept any ridiculous rates.

[Edited at 2010-04-22 13:07 GMT]


 
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