| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | Show me your rates, and I\'ll tell you what kind of translator you are Thread poster: Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
|
|---|
David Rockell (X)
Chinese to English
| Mr Patels, do please tell us what we are | Nov 23, 2001 |
I spotted this particular forum topic a couple of days ago and although I understand why a body of people would be more than interested in what is paid to them, I do not like the tone of some of the statements made. The market will naturally dictate rates of payment, but for a translation or a pound of turnips, you are unlikely to get good ones by penny pinching. However, many translators, perhaps even the majority of translators out there (think developing world) would be more than happy wi... See more
I spotted this particular forum topic a couple of days ago and although I understand why a body of people would be more than interested in what is paid to them, I do not like the tone of some of the statements made. The market will naturally dictate rates of payment, but for a translation or a pound of turnips, you are unlikely to get good ones by penny pinching. However, many translators, perhaps even the majority of translators out there (think developing world) would be more than happy with what Mr Patels dismisses as blasphemous. I would be very careful before dismissing the linguistic talents of many fine and talented people, let alone assailing their professional integrity. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 17:09
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Nikki: The statements about applying to US agencies, etc. were not directed to you; it was a general, impersonal \"you\".
Reply to David Rockell:
It is a fact, as many others have stated here, that low rates, in 99% of all cases, translate to little or no quality.
As I pointed out, living in a developing country should be no reason for demanding (or being offered) low rates - provided that the translator can provide Western quality.... See more Nikki: The statements about applying to US agencies, etc. were not directed to you; it was a general, impersonal \"you\".
Reply to David Rockell:
It is a fact, as many others have stated here, that low rates, in 99% of all cases, translate to little or no quality.
As I pointed out, living in a developing country should be no reason for demanding (or being offered) low rates - provided that the translator can provide Western quality. Unfortunately, the quality will almost always be a lot lower due to differences in the way people view languages and the translation process per se. Developing countries usually do not have quality schools for translators; as a result, the people that work as translators in those countries are totally unprepared, and they have a completely different approach to translation (i.e., the infamous \"one-to-one equivalence\": simply replacing one word in one language with that of another without any textual analysis or regard for the target language). In addition, most developing-country translators work from one foreign language into another foreign language (instead of translating into their mother tongue), which invariably leads to disaster.
[ This Message was edited by: on 2001-11-23 11:02 ] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Nikki Graham 
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:09
Spanish to English
| Neither do I like the tone | Nov 23, 2001 |
Quote:
On 2001-11-23 08:10, David Rockell wrote:
I spotted this particular forum topic a couple of days ago and although I understand why a body of people would be more than interested in what is paid to them, I do not like the tone of some of the statements made... I would be very careful before dismissing the linguistic talents of many fine and talented people, let alone assailing their professional integrity.
<
... See more Quote:
On 2001-11-23 08:10, David Rockell wrote:
I spotted this particular forum topic a couple of days ago and although I understand why a body of people would be more than interested in what is paid to them, I do not like the tone of some of the statements made... I would be very careful before dismissing the linguistic talents of many fine and talented people, let alone assailing their professional integrity.
I couldn\'t agree with you more! ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Not true, Werner | Nov 30, 2001 |
Quote:
Unfortunately, the quality will almost always be a lot lower due to differences in the way people view languages and the translation process per se. Developing countries usually do not have quality schools for translators; as a result, the people that work as translators in those countries are totally unprepared, and they have a completely different approach to translation (i.e., the infamous \"one-to-one equivalence\": simply replaci
... See more Quote:
Unfortunately, the quality will almost always be a lot lower due to differences in the way people view languages and the translation process per se. Developing countries usually do not have quality schools for translators; as a result, the people that work as translators in those countries are totally unprepared, and they have a completely different approach to translation (i.e., the infamous \"one-to-one equivalence\": simply replacing one word in one language with that of another without any textual analysis or regard for the target language). In addition, most developing-country translators work from one foreign language into another foreign language (instead of translating into their mother tongue), which invariably leads to disaster
I read this thread yesterday, and I wouldn\'t repeat what has already been said, but there is a couple of points I\'d like to make.
1. I wouldn\'t dare to speak about all developing countries (and we are yet to determine which countries are referred to as developing in this discussion) but there is a good number of high quality schools for translators in Russia (Moscow State Linguistics University, Moscow International School for Interpreters and Translators, regional Linguistic schools like in Nizhny Novgorod etc. etc.). They provide an excellent training and their graduates do not appreciate being referred to as \"low quality\" translators \"totally unprepared\" to the competition from the *upper* countries.
2. We do have a strong linguistic and cross-cultural communications background to avoid \"the infamous one-to-one equivalence\". This is an open world, we travel, we communicate, and it is certainly not beyond us to demonstrate proper \"regard for the target language\".
3. Most developing country translators tend to use their mother tongue in the translation process (rather than \"working from one foreign language into another foreign language\"), and many of them translate into their mother tongue only - we haven\'t all fallen off a banana boat you know! Besides, most of the translators from the former USSR are truly bilingual - they know Russian as well as their appropriate (Ukrainian, Belorussian, Armenian, Georgian etc.) mother tongue so they may well translate into both Russian and any one of these without being considered a fake.
To make a long story short, I would truly appreciate it, Werner, if you chose your words more carefully when speaking about your colleagues - top-notch professionals (just like I\'m sure you are) - from other countries.
Regards,
Julia ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 17:09
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Reply to Julia | Dec 1, 2001 |
Julia,
You are right about those Russian schools you mention. And I am not saying that everyone is \"bad\" in those countries. But that does not change the fact that an alarming majority of \"translators\" in such countries take on \"foreign-to-foreign jobs\". Unfortunately, that unethical and unprofessional (and outright criminal, because it is intended to defraud the client) practice is not limited to \"those countries\": you also find a lot of \"translators\" in the \"Wes... See more Julia,
You are right about those Russian schools you mention. And I am not saying that everyone is \"bad\" in those countries. But that does not change the fact that an alarming majority of \"translators\" in such countries take on \"foreign-to-foreign jobs\". Unfortunately, that unethical and unprofessional (and outright criminal, because it is intended to defraud the client) practice is not limited to \"those countries\": you also find a lot of \"translators\" in the \"West\" who engage in that same activity (there is even a considerable number of such \"rotten apples\" right here at ProZ - for example, there is one lady who repeatedly translates from \"foreign to foreign\", and then she floods us with her KudoZ questions. And she lives in Western Europe!).
To make a long story short, Julia, I am willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but until I have seen otherwise, I will have to go with the \"general trends\" I have observed: we all work with \"generalizations\", but we do make adjustments for certain individuals (if they manage to break the mould, as it were).
[ This Message was edited by: on 2001-12-01 09:26 ] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Klaus Dorn (X)
Local time: 00:09
German to English
+ ...
| It really depends where you are and what your aim is | Dec 1, 2001 |
Having read most of the comments to the topic, I have to say I feel that most of you are in it \"for the money\" which in my opinion is not a great motivation in any kind of job. I live in Turkey and I can exist comfortably here with the rate that I charge ($0.075 per word). Furthermore, translation isn\'t money making for me, it is passion and love of languages, same reasons why I do my teaching jobs. Throughout my life I have NEVER done a job just for the money, I did it because I was convince... See more Having read most of the comments to the topic, I have to say I feel that most of you are in it \"for the money\" which in my opinion is not a great motivation in any kind of job. I live in Turkey and I can exist comfortably here with the rate that I charge ($0.075 per word). Furthermore, translation isn\'t money making for me, it is passion and love of languages, same reasons why I do my teaching jobs. Throughout my life I have NEVER done a job just for the money, I did it because I was convinced that I could share my expertise in something with someone who hasn\'t got it. I wish people would show a little bit more idealism. Of course, we all need to earn money, but let\'s do it with something that we would do for free if we had enough or if money wasn\'t required in this world. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 17:09
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I agree, Klaus | Dec 1, 2001 |
But wouldn\'t you agree that it can be quite annoying to see \"infiltrators\" muck up something that you hold dear?
I agree: translation must be your passion (otherwise, we would not be doing it), but a passion is also something that you will defend to the last when it comes under attack.
I guess, Klaus, you have just found the root cause of this and other discussions: whether it be over rates, regulations, associations, etc., there are always two groups... See more But wouldn\'t you agree that it can be quite annoying to see \"infiltrators\" muck up something that you hold dear?
I agree: translation must be your passion (otherwise, we would not be doing it), but a passion is also something that you will defend to the last when it comes under attack.
I guess, Klaus, you have just found the root cause of this and other discussions: whether it be over rates, regulations, associations, etc., there are always two groups opposing each other - those that are in it for the money only (and, as a result, will do anything to get their hands on a job, even if it means selling out for 2 cents a word; they are also the ones that will oppose any kind of professional and ethical standards for the profession because, they know, they\'d be out in a flash if that were to happen) and those that consider translation their passion. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Roomy Naqvy
India
Local time: 02:39
English to Hindi
+ ...
Dear Werner, and everyone else,
I don\'t know if rates always reflect price. By the way, Werner, if you find any \'high raters\' working in EnglishGujarati and EnglishHindi, I\'ll be glad to do their work and give you a 40% cut on that price of $0.22 [22 cents].
Evert was only offering a 20% cut.
Best wishes
Roomy
[addsig]
| | |
|
|
|
Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) (X)
Local time: 17:09
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | I'll keep my eyes open, Roomy | Dec 2, 2001 |
If I ever hear of anything, I\'ll let you know 
| | | | Dyran Altenburg (X)
United States
Local time: 17:09
English to Spanish
+ ...
| For the love of money... to a point | Dec 16, 2001 |
To Werner,
I do agree with you wholeheartedly, but just let me clarify that there are some of us who charge reasonably high rates (we do it for the money), and also chose this profession because we love to be part of the communication process (passion for words).
To those who defend bottom-of-the-barrel rates,
Yes, there is such a thing as earning good money doing something you love, even when dealing with tough competition.
<... See more To Werner,
I do agree with you wholeheartedly, but just let me clarify that there are some of us who charge reasonably high rates (we do it for the money), and also chose this profession because we love to be part of the communication process (passion for words).
To those who defend bottom-of-the-barrel rates,
Yes, there is such a thing as earning good money doing something you love, even when dealing with tough competition.
Furthermore, why would anyone want to choose such a demanding profession if it won\'t allow them to earn a comfortable living? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | What's so difficult about evolving? | Dec 21, 2001 |
OK, I\'m a late entrant to this topic, but I can\'t let a statement like \"once a cheap translator always a cheap translator\" (or whatever the expression was) go by without an answer!
I went freelance just six months ago. I had no idea how much freelance translation paid, but I knew how much I wanted to earn and how much I could produce and it was easy to put two and two together. I also wanted to start work straight away, so I biased my prices on what I thought was the low side (thou... See more OK, I\'m a late entrant to this topic, but I can\'t let a statement like \"once a cheap translator always a cheap translator\" (or whatever the expression was) go by without an answer!
I went freelance just six months ago. I had no idea how much freelance translation paid, but I knew how much I wanted to earn and how much I could produce and it was easy to put two and two together. I also wanted to start work straight away, so I biased my prices on what I thought was the low side (though above the \"dumping\" prices quoted). In six months I have had an avalanche of clients, most of whom had their own ideas about prices anyway. All of them have been pleased with my work. I\'m at the happy stage of being able to refuse the least well paid jobs, I\'m earning twice as much per day as I did at the start, and I\'m expecting this to rise further still. I\'d hardly call this strategy a failure.
As for what consitutes a reasonable rate: I\'m in W.Europe; we have our rates; I\'m happy with mine. If I asked for much more it could almost be construed as greed.
As for our high-speed Dutch friend, I understand exactly what he\'s saying about IT translations. If you know your subject inside out, they can go fast, very very fast indeed. And judging by the standard of his English (sorry, sir, for being impersonal but I don\'t have your name in front of me), which isn\'t even his native language, I certainly have to agree that he seems to have a naturally lucid writing style. People sometimes call that talent.
▲ Collapse
| | | | | It does not pay to be rude... | Jan 22, 2002 |
I cannot agree more about translators all over the world getting better rates for their work, but, I don\'t know what Werner expects to obtain by being rude to his colleagues. I don\'t know if this is truly his way of thinking, but the image he transmits is: \"I believe translation should be left to those of us who live in central and rich countries, and those who call themselves translators and live in dirt-poor countries should limit themselves to harvest bananas, because that\'s all they are ... See more I cannot agree more about translators all over the world getting better rates for their work, but, I don\'t know what Werner expects to obtain by being rude to his colleagues. I don\'t know if this is truly his way of thinking, but the image he transmits is: \"I believe translation should be left to those of us who live in central and rich countries, and those who call themselves translators and live in dirt-poor countries should limit themselves to harvest bananas, because that\'s all they are good for.\"
The rates one obtains for one\'s work depend largely on language combination. Unfortunately for me, my main combination is English > Spanish, and there are more translators working with that language combination than with any other, so competition is ferocious. If you charge a rate that is ridiculously higher than the ones requested by everybody else, clients will never get to know how good you are, because they\'ll never hire you. Also, even if Werner does not believe it, when you work for clients in another country you just cannot charge the same rates as translators who live in the same country as the client, because there is an element of risk involved, or at least clients view it that way. If you know any way to change that, well, I\'d love to know all about it. ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
| hmm, Werner... | Sep 8, 2010 |
I think you are off in many ways...
1. First of all, the best school still cannot guarantee that you are a good translator.
And the diploma - assuming you have one - certainly does not give you any right whatsoever to judge other translators on the basis of schooling received.
2. Good translation does not depend on geographic location which seems rather obvious if you think about it.
3. I resent your rich-and-developed-country-centric comment and I ad... See more I think you are off in many ways...
1. First of all, the best school still cannot guarantee that you are a good translator.
And the diploma - assuming you have one - certainly does not give you any right whatsoever to judge other translators on the basis of schooling received.
2. Good translation does not depend on geographic location which seems rather obvious if you think about it.
3. I resent your rich-and-developed-country-centric comment and I advise you think twice before you voice such prejudiced opinions.
4. Even though there may be a problem of poor quality under-priced translations performed in various East or West countries, that still does not entitle you to make generalist comments such as you made - THERE ARE PLENTY OF HIGH STANDARD GOOD QUALITY TRANSLATORS IN THE COUNTRIES YOU ARE REFERING TO - SCHOOL OR NO SCHOOL - and, by the way, I assure you that I met enough schooled translators both East and West who sucked, and enough unschooled but well practiced translators - in all geographic locations - who did great work.
And I worked both East and West, so I may have a pretty good idea what I am talking about.
I wish you a better judgement in the future !
Maya ▲ Collapse
| | | | Marco Dib
Brazil
Local time: 18:09
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| That all depends | Sep 8, 2010 |
That all depends on where you work and to whom you work for.
Here in Brazil I can't charge more than US$ 0.08 to US$ 0.10 a word. And It has nothing to do with the translators' qualification. I doesn't matter how much expertise you have. The market here doesn't pay more than that, unless - of course - you are a sworn translator.
I never got any job that came directly from the customer, and the main reason is because people here rely on agencies, and agencies do not pay ... See more That all depends on where you work and to whom you work for.
Here in Brazil I can't charge more than US$ 0.08 to US$ 0.10 a word. And It has nothing to do with the translators' qualification. I doesn't matter how much expertise you have. The market here doesn't pay more than that, unless - of course - you are a sworn translator.
I never got any job that came directly from the customer, and the main reason is because people here rely on agencies, and agencies do not pay much.
I agree that we - translators - should not charge low prices if we are duly qualified and experienced. But we are also forced to adapt to the market conditions. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Rising number of translators | Sep 8, 2010 |
Werner George Patels, M.A., C.Tran.(ATIO) wrote:
As I pointed out, living in a developing country should be no reason for demanding (or being offered) low rates - provided that the translator can provide Western quality. Unfortunately, the quality will almost always be a lot lower due to differences in the way people view languages and the translation process per se. Developing countries usually do not have quality schools for translators; as a result, the people that work as translators in those countries are totally unprepared, and they have a completely different approach to translation (i.e., the infamous \"one-to-one equivalence\": simply replacing one word in one language with that of another without any textual analysis or regard for the target language). In addition, most developing-country translators work from one foreign language into another foreign language (instead of translating into their mother tongue), which invariably leads to disaster.
In case of Thailand, a developing country, more people participate in translation industry due to more graduates from universities. Quality of translation is improved continuously with advancement in technology and client demands. Schools for translators are very competitive in arranging new linguistic lessons. Of course, the fee rate is rising as well.
Soonthon Lupkitaro
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Show me your rates, and I\'ll tell you what kind of translator you are | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
Are you ready for something fresh in the industry? TM-Town is a unique new site for you -- the freelance translator -- to store, manage and share translation memories (TMs) and glossaries...and potentially meet new clients on the basis of your prior work.
More info » |
| | Protemos translation business management system | Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!
The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.
More info » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
