Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3] >
Telecommuter's visa?
Thread poster: Patrick Yancey
Henry Hinds
Henry Hinds  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 07:54
English to Spanish
+ ...
In memoriam
Telecommuter's Tax Haven Jul 6, 2006

Forget the visa. How about a Telecommuter's Tax Haven where you could make all your money from other countries and pay no income tax?

Now that would make sense...

They would still get the benefit of the money you spend in their economy, just like anyone who is a tourist or retiree with a foreign income.


 
Marc P (X)
Marc P (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 14:54
German to English
+ ...
Telecommuter's visa? Jul 6, 2006

I understand you perfectly, Quine.

It makes economic sense to encourage telecommuters to move to certain areas, particularly areas suffering depopulation. It is as much an issue within countries as it is between them. I read some years ago that the French government offered incentives to families to move to certain rural areas in order to counter depopulation. I don't know whether this was true or is still the case.

In the mismanaged economic unification of West and Eas
... See more
I understand you perfectly, Quine.

It makes economic sense to encourage telecommuters to move to certain areas, particularly areas suffering depopulation. It is as much an issue within countries as it is between them. I read some years ago that the French government offered incentives to families to move to certain rural areas in order to counter depopulation. I don't know whether this was true or is still the case.

In the mismanaged economic unification of West and East Germany, the German government paid huge sums to painters and decorators in the East in order to upgrade properties and in the process to mitigate the high unemployment there. In the meantime, many of the properties that were improved have been torn down: migration from the East has resulted in a huge surplus of housing. A more effective measure would have been to offer incentives to existing, mobile small businesses which were not dependent upon a local customer base to move to the east, but to my knowledge no such incentives were offered.

If you are proposing to build a new factory in a depressed area and create a thousand new jobs there, it is another matter, of course.

Since they represent several thousand members, I suppose that professional associations are the appropriate body to do the necessary lobbying. But they do not generally concern themselves with wider government policy, nor do they have the resources to do so.

Marc
Collapse


 
Gillian Searl
Gillian Searl  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:54
German to English
I understand it too Jul 6, 2006

Take me as an example. I am British and currently living in Germany (for the moment). That's easy because it's EU. But I did take a look at living in Brazil. There is currently no legal way for me to live in Brazil for the long term. I either need a local job or a huge sum of money and the intention to set up a company. Neither of those fit me. I would simply like to live there and spend my money there. I would not take a local person's job but would spend my money in their economy. I agree, is ... See more
Take me as an example. I am British and currently living in Germany (for the moment). That's easy because it's EU. But I did take a look at living in Brazil. There is currently no legal way for me to live in Brazil for the long term. I either need a local job or a huge sum of money and the intention to set up a company. Neither of those fit me. I would simply like to live there and spend my money there. I would not take a local person's job but would spend my money in their economy. I agree, is that not beneficial to Brazil?

Gillian Noameshie
Collapse


 
Anne Bohy
Anne Bohy  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 14:54
English to French
I 100% agree with you, quine Jul 6, 2006

I have faced the same problem. When most of your customers are in a foreign country, it would make more sense to work in this country. Otherwise, your job is much more limited. This is true for instance for software localization, which is more than just translation, and it is impossible to work on these other aspects (in particular QA testing or on-site work) when on the other side of the ocean.

Of course, I understand that there is no reason to give us preference on other immigrant
... See more
I have faced the same problem. When most of your customers are in a foreign country, it would make more sense to work in this country. Otherwise, your job is much more limited. This is true for instance for software localization, which is more than just translation, and it is impossible to work on these other aspects (in particular QA testing or on-site work) when on the other side of the ocean.

Of course, I understand that there is no reason to give us preference on other immigrants, but at least there should be a possibility. For the US, for instance, I have discovered that there is NO possibility. H1B visas are for salaried workers, not for freelancers. I have tried an E2 visa, but was rejected in a very shocking way. I spent quite a lot of money for absolutely nothing.

Presently, any foreigner can create an LLC in the U.S., work through this LLC, PAY TAXES IN THE US OF COURSE, and yet have absolutely no right to simply ask for a visa... unless you can spend several hundred thousand dollars, and hire Americans right away...
Collapse


 
Daina Jauntirans
Daina Jauntirans  Identity Verified
Local time: 08:54
German to English
+ ...
I understand and agree also Jul 6, 2006

Gillian Noameshie wrote:

Take me as an example. I am British and currently living in Germany (for the moment). That's easy because it's EU. But I did take a look at living in Brazil. There is currently no legal way for me to live in Brazil for the long term. I either need a local job or a huge sum of money and the intention to set up a company. Neither of those fit me. I would simply like to live there and spend my money there. I would not take a local person's job but would spend my money in their economy. I agree, is that not beneficial to Brazil?

Gillian Noameshie


Gillian, I am looking at this kind of option for the future. I would be living/working in a country where none of my languages are spoken primarily, so I wouldn't be taking a local job. But the work visa may be the prohibitive factor. There should be a telecommuter's visa - I could show at least a 5 yr. track record of supporting my family as a freelancer. I wish that were enough. We're currently thinking about a US territory, because it would be the same situation as with EU countries (no work visa!!)


 
Viktoria Gimbe
Viktoria Gimbe  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 09:54
English to French
+ ...
Just a little note on the motivation behind immigration Jul 6, 2006

Irene says that immigration is considered by governments from a human rights point of view. I beg to differ.

Here in Canada, for example, there are three kinds of immigrants - if I can put them in categories just for the purpose.

There are those who are rare individuals because of their highly specialized trades or very special abilities - in Canada, these would be doctors and hockey players, among many other. We all agree that these people are allowed to come here - a
... See more
Irene says that immigration is considered by governments from a human rights point of view. I beg to differ.

Here in Canada, for example, there are three kinds of immigrants - if I can put them in categories just for the purpose.

There are those who are rare individuals because of their highly specialized trades or very special abilities - in Canada, these would be doctors and hockey players, among many other. We all agree that these people are allowed to come here - and become citizens much faster than other "types" of immigrants - because they either contribute to the economy more than others or because they fill in a gap somewhere in the economy or in society. Canada doesn't let them settle here to help them. These are not people who need help.

Then there are those who come here with a lot of money and the intention to open a business. They are welcomed with wide open arms. I don't think I need to comment much further on this category - they bring money, they open businesses, they pay lots of taxes and they give jobs to the locals. Definite financial advantage for the country - and they don't accept these people in order to help them. These people, once again, don't need help.

Finally, there is the category of the downright immigrant. These are people who fled their country because they were in danger, or simply because they had no future/means to live/means to bring up their kids. They try their luck in Canada, hoping that they will be able to have full-time jobs and that one day, their kids will have some kind of diploma. They don't ask for anything else - this is already plenty more than what they had in their countries. And they only want a full-time job, not high salaries and paid vacations. Anything will do. These are Canada's favorite immigrants. They go and work full-time at minimum wage and are happy. So, for once, we have the manpower it takes to pick the friggin' strawberries that the locals don't want to pick - eeew! What a dirty job! And it's paid minimum wage! Let's just have the immigrants do this... Once again, there is an obvious financial benefit here. The strawberry industry would not survive without this foreign manpower. Same thing goes for pretty much all factories that don't require any diplomas to work there - and that's many many industries. They are unable to fulfill their manpower needs and they NEED immigrants for this. Otherwise, they simply would not exist.

So, my point is, immigration in developed countries is always motivated for the most part by financial interests. The proof: every time people settle in Canada or the States illegally (they don't have the choice to be illegal as they never even got a passport from their country) and when they are found out, they are categorically refused their visa. Now, illegal immigrants are mainly those who immigrate for human rights reasons - and those are exactly the ones who get booted. The other categories usually do it simply because they want to be better off than they were elsewhere. Trust me, I'm in Montreal, one of the two capitals of immigration in Canada (the other is Vancouver, but it's starting to get abandoned by immigrants who got loaded with money there and can now lead a rich life in their home countries with their internationally recognized diplomas they got here).

So, Canada says, if you are profitable for us, you can immigrate here. If not, go somewhere else. There is a woman in Canada, I believe she's Russian. She is a Canadian citizen and had her mother (70-something) and her mentally ill brother came here to get reunited. They applied for a visa - and the visa was refused. Why? None of them can go to work and they will both need social assistance. Never mind that in their home country, they will not get social assistance and will end up in the street, begging for spare change. It only goes to show...

Think about what Canada and the US would do without immigrants. Soon enough, their citizens would themselves try to immigrate elsewhere as the economy would suffer. Immigration supports the economy big time. There.

Now, back to the original topic

[Edited at 2006-07-07 03:25]
Collapse


 
Gillian Searl
Gillian Searl  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 13:54
German to English
Canada Jul 6, 2006

Canada I found is relatively easy. There is a points system. If you have enough points you can immigrate. The points are based on education, work experience and language skills. My husband and I could easily emigrate to Canada. More info on Canada from:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/assess/index.html


 
Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)
Rosa Maria Duenas Rios (X)  Identity Verified
Local time: 09:54
Portraying Canada and Immigration Jul 6, 2006

Gillian Noameshie wrote:
Canada I found is relatively easy. There is a points system. If you have enough points you can immigrate. The points are based on education, work experience and language skills. My husband and I could easily emigrate to Canada. More info on Canada from:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/skilled/assess/index.html


What Gillian says is quite precise. I myself was born in Mexico City, and emigrated to Canada (I also worked for their Immigration department for a few years), so I more or less know the system.

As much as I respect Viktoria's opinion, I have to say that her description is incomplete and very subjective. I do not fall in the first two categories she describes (well known personalities or entrepreneurs/investors), and yet I did not go to Canada to pick strawberries. As a matter of fact, most of the foreign farm workers that harvest Canada's produce come to Canada on a temporary working visa, and they return to their countries once the agricultural season is over (approx. 10,000 Mexican farmers do this every year).

I emigrated to Canada (to Montreal) as an independent immigrant with the point system described by Gillian. However, gathering the points is not enough. One has to pass a background check and a medical exam. If a person has committed a crime, or has a chronic illness such as kidney disease, for example, immigration will not be granted. I emigrated because I felt very comfortable with the values of the Canadian society and because I knew I could do well, and I do not feel Canada has taken any advantage (economic or otherwise) from me.

Canada has established immigration categories for personalities, for entrepreneurs, for retirees, for political (not economical) refugees, for family members, and for independent immigrants. The US has a similar system; as I mentioned before, these are the two countries that receive most immigrants per year in the world, and they both have a very generous human rights policy in the case of political refugees. One cannot blame them for establishing rules to cope with the excessive demand, or for not allowing in whoever they do not consider fit (for whatever reason). After all, if a lot of hungry people decided to come into my house just because I had food here, I would react in the same way.

Victoria Gimbe wrote:
[…] The proof: every time people settle in Canada or the States illegally (they don't have the choice to be illegal as they never even got a passport from their country) and when they are found out, they are categorically refused their visa. Now, illegal immigrants are mainly those who immigrate for human rights reasons - and those are exactly the ones who get booted. The other categories usually do it simply because they want to be better off than they were elsewhere. Trust me, I'm in Montreal, one of the two capitals of immigration in Canada […]


The above is not quite true. Most of the people who settle illegally (at least in Canada and the US) have a passport (it is usually political refugees who do not have passports). When they are discovered, not always the country refuses them a visa and “boots” them out. The proof is in the efforts the US is currently making to try to find a solution to the millions of illegal immigrants working in that country. Of course it is in the economic interest of the host country, but it is also in the economic interest of the illegal immigrants (by the way, the UN does not grant refugee status to these persons because fleeing the economic situation of one’s country does not imply there has been a violation of human rights). It does break my heart to see all those Mexicans fleeing unemployment in their country to try and find a better future in the US, but I cannot blame the US for trying to get them to use legal channels or for trying to send them back. If at all, I would blame the Mexican government for not being able to create enough jobs to keep them in their country since, given the choice, all these people would not emigrate.

Of course immigrants support the economies (and even the scientific advance) of these countries, but legal immigrants also obtain a big reward for their contribution; they are not exploited.

In ny case, my point was -and still is- that ultimately, each country is free to determine their immigration policies, and I do not see fit criticizing them for not accepting those we might believe would be “an advantage” to their economies.


 
Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Aleksandr Okunev (X)
Local time: 16:54
English to Russian
Not so. Jul 6, 2006

Viktoria Gimbe wrote: Never mind that in their home country, they will not get social assistance and will end up in the street, begging for spare change.


No, they will be eaten by wild bears which
routinely tread the streets of every Russian
town.

I guess the core idea of this topic that it is
bad to have cheap translations coming from
Russia and India but extremely nice to have
cheap oil and timber coming from Russia and
garments from India. This has been discussed
countless times with zero result.

(Or I have missed something)

Stay well
Aleksandr


 
Patrick Yancey
Patrick Yancey  Identity Verified
Canada
Local time: 10:54
Member (2005)
Dutch to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Getting back on track... Jul 6, 2006

I appreciate everyone's comments, but to answer the last question, the original topic of this post was about telecommuters (people who can work for the same clients anywhere in the world via the Internet), and why national goverments aren't courting them to immigrate (most, in fact, make it extremely difficult). please note: this is from a strictly economic perspective, human rights issues would also be an interesting topic, but fall outside of the scope here.

From an economic persp
... See more
I appreciate everyone's comments, but to answer the last question, the original topic of this post was about telecommuters (people who can work for the same clients anywhere in the world via the Internet), and why national goverments aren't courting them to immigrate (most, in fact, make it extremely difficult). please note: this is from a strictly economic perspective, human rights issues would also be an interesting topic, but fall outside of the scope here.

From an economic perspective, a country is shooting itself in the foot by making it difficult for telecommuters to immigrate and spend all their money and pay their taxes there. (let's assume some obvious premises here: such as- the telecommuter is a professional with steady full-time work who does not want to cheat on their taxes or take advantage of the country they're moving to)

Personally, I like Henry's idea. It seems strange to me that there is no country like this already. I can't help but think that it's only because telecommuting is so new and the relevant legislative bodies haven't been made aware of its large-scale economic implications.

My question then, for those who understand and agree with what I'm saying, is what would be the best way to go about informing the relevant policy makers and law makers?
After all, the existence of such a visa would certaintly make life nice for all of us who enjoy experiencing life in other countries and who can bring our work with us.
Collapse


 
Irene N
Irene N
United States
Local time: 08:54
English to Russian
+ ...
I beg to differ too Jul 6, 2006

Viktoria Gimbe wrote:

There is a woman in Canada, I believe she's Russian. She is a Canadian citizen and had her mother (70-something) and her mentally ill brother came here to get reunited. They applied for a visa - and the visa was refused.

Think about what Canada and the US would do without immigrants. Edited at 2006-07-06 18:34]


First 2 categories pay for themselves and good for them and host countries. So be it! Yet...

As you can guess, I'm Russian too. I have just brought my 80-year old mother to California, where she stays with my sister. Mother has tons of pre-existing conditions that have been known to the INS in advance. First, in the US it is impossible for the immediate family to get rejected (children must be under 25), but I can't blame any country for not allowing 12th in kin to thrive on the same benefits along the way. Being of a retiree age, in the first 3 months of her stay my mother got medical assistance from Medical at a scale that neither myself nor 45 million of working Americans can get, plus most examinations were recommended by the doctors at Stanford hospital, - we didn't even know or ask for half of what she got! Our goal was family reconciliation with a member incapable of living alone any longer and having immediate family/US citizens, and our human rights to reunite with our mother have been honored after approvial of our proof of good standing (above poverty level, which equals to ~12500 USD/year), tax payments and affidavit of support (room and board) for her. She herself will hardly ever work for the US:-) I wish for the US that everyone would be as grateful and appreciative as myself and our family.

Never mind that in their home country, they will not get social assistance and will end up in the street, begging for spare change. It only goes to show...

- come on, Viktoria, don't repeat a cold-war time propaganda fed to Mud Lick, Alabama:-)

We see beggars in every country, US including, and not because they didn't have a chance to immigrate:-)

[Edited at 2006-07-06 21:39]


 
Benno Groeneveld
Benno Groeneveld  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 09:54
English to Dutch
+ ...
India would probably take you Jul 7, 2006

if you want to move to another country.

And think of the advantage of moving to India and similar countries. Then you, too, can make a living getting paid $0.025 per word!


 
Fan Gao
Fan Gao
Australia
Local time: 00:54
English to Chinese
+ ...
or......... Jul 7, 2006

Benno Groeneveld wrote:
think of the advantage of moving to India and similar countries. Then you, too, can make a living getting paid $0.025 per word!


...you could move to India and other developing countries, charge western rates and live like a king:)


 
Ritu Bhanot
Ritu Bhanot  Identity Verified
France
French to Hindi
+ ...
India :-) Jul 7, 2006

Well try it out may be you'd have a different experience but most of the people I know have told me that it's not as easy!!!They had regular jobs and had been transferred to India/ wanted to migrate for personal reasons and it was really difficult (and impossible for some) in spite of the fact that they had enough resources and could live comfortably in India... which is quite confusing as I've seen quite a few not-so-well-off people moving about.

I think immigration is all a matter
... See more
Well try it out may be you'd have a different experience but most of the people I know have told me that it's not as easy!!!They had regular jobs and had been transferred to India/ wanted to migrate for personal reasons and it was really difficult (and impossible for some) in spite of the fact that they had enough resources and could live comfortably in India... which is quite confusing as I've seen quite a few not-so-well-off people moving about.

I think immigration is all a matter of chance and you never know!
Collapse


 
Irene N
Irene N
United States
Local time: 08:54
English to Russian
+ ...
Now about EU - just FYI Jul 7, 2006

A few years ago I was looking inti spending 1-2 years in Italy (still would love to:-)). I have a place to stay, free. A family of my university friend has a very large house close to Venice, I'm welcome. Moreover, I share ownership of another apartment with her but it's still under mortgage.

Not possible! Even with the US passport I must leave the country every 3 months and can't spend more than 180 days/year total in Italy. Can't do it with my cats:-( The non-immigrant visa good f
... See more
A few years ago I was looking inti spending 1-2 years in Italy (still would love to:-)). I have a place to stay, free. A family of my university friend has a very large house close to Venice, I'm welcome. Moreover, I share ownership of another apartment with her but it's still under mortgage.

Not possible! Even with the US passport I must leave the country every 3 months and can't spend more than 180 days/year total in Italy. Can't do it with my cats:-( The non-immigrant visa good for 2 years requires a proof of cash or cash flow enough to sustain yourself WITHOUT work - I was told that I can't work even over Internet in the EU without work pemit so none of my contracts are any good for the officials. One needs a letter from prospective employer, just like in the US.

This is for info only, I don't have any hard feeling, just pity myself:-( Good thing I didn't spend any money - simply called Italian Embassy in DC.

Must wait till my retirement check and rental money from my current condo.
Collapse


 
Pages in topic:   < [1 2 3] >


To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator:


You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request »

Telecommuter's visa?







Protemos translation business management system
Create your account in minutes, and start working! 3-month trial for agencies, and free for freelancers!

The system lets you keep client/vendor database, with contacts and rates, manage projects and assign jobs to vendors, issue invoices, track payments, store and manage project files, generate business reports on turnover profit per client/manager etc.

More info »
Wordfast Pro
Translation Memory Software for Any Platform

Exclusive discount for ProZ.com users! Save over 13% when purchasing Wordfast Pro through ProZ.com. Wordfast is the world's #1 provider of platform-independent Translation Memory software. Consistently ranked the most user-friendly and highest value

Buy now! »