| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5 6] > | Agency policy updates re: the economy and our rates Thread poster: MGL
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As Nancy Reagan said: "Just say no".
| | | | Jaroslaw Michalak 
Poland
Local time: 21:26
Member (2004)
English to Polish
SITE LOCALIZER | This is funny, if you have enough clients, that is... | Dec 13, 2008 |
It reminds me of a recent exchange I had with one agency:
Agency: "Times are hard, blah, blah, recession, blah, crisis, blah, blah... Let's say you charge us Y instead of X? (X = my regular rate, Y = 2/3 * X)."
Me: "No way. X it is, can't go lower than that."
Agency: "Oh, OK. We put X in the database then."
I wonder how many translators did fall for it, actually?
| | | | | Who's got the power? | Dec 13, 2008 |
It seems to me in this case that the agency in question is a rather large one. This also means they have a sizeable database of translators. This in turn means that the translators working with this agency also have power. If they refuse the unilateral changes in price and payment policies as a block, I really wonder how that agency can live through the crisis without a large portion of their main business asset. You guys are lucky, because you all got the same communications at about the same t... See more It seems to me in this case that the agency in question is a rather large one. This also means they have a sizeable database of translators. This in turn means that the translators working with this agency also have power. If they refuse the unilateral changes in price and payment policies as a block, I really wonder how that agency can live through the crisis without a large portion of their main business asset. You guys are lucky, because you all got the same communications at about the same time, and because you all got together to discuss it, you know what the rest of the translators of this agency thinks about this.
Also, what Jabberwock says makes a lot of sense. Who knows? If the agency has more than a few translators saying they flat out refuse these policies, then they just might decide to leave it alone.
As for my case, described in a previous post in this thread, I think that I will tell the agency that I will accept to add 15 days to my payment terms, but I will also raise my rate by 10%. We'll see what they reply to that. I know that I am at the top of their list of translators for my language pair, so I think I have some power here (this is a client who cares about quality).
[Edited at 2008-12-13 18:49 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Vadim Pogulyaev
Thailand
Local time: 02:26
Member (2007)
English to Russian
Theree are two ways:
1. Just saying no.
2. Ceasing cooperation with this agency. They are worthless kind of client anyway.
I am really sorry, but this is not acceptable.
My rate for your company is low already, and I have no intention in lowering even more.
Kindly note, that my rate is X EU. I won't accept any deducted projects.
Here's my first reply, if all the feedback will be like that, they will hush this up.
[Edited at 2008-12-13 19:29 GMT]
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Vadim Pogulyaev
Thailand
Local time: 02:26
Member (2007)
English to Russian
It might be good idea to use consistent replies for crap like this=)
| | | | Boris Kimel
Israel
Local time: 22:26
English to Russian
+ ...
| Thanks everybody | Dec 14, 2008 |
For saving my time since I don't need to soften my reply email picking out taboo words anymore, just won't send it. A link to the topic will be passed instead. The handcart approach seems to be the most reasonable one.
| | | | | Yes, just say no | Dec 14, 2008 |
Jabberwock wrote:
It reminds me of a recent exchange I had with one agency:
Agency: "Times are hard, blah, blah, recession, blah, crisis, blah, blah... Let's say you charge us Y instead of X? (X = my regular rate, Y = 2/3 * X)."
Me: "No way. X it is, can't go lower than that."
Agency: "Oh, OK. We put X in the database then."
I wonder how many translators did fall for it, actually?
I also got such an e-mail from one of my clients. They wanted to almost halved my rate. I told them that I was sorry but that I couldn't afford to lower my rate (long mail). They never got back to me regarding that mail, but they kept sending me jobs at my regular rate...
We shouldn't forget that we run business...
| | | | | Doomsday has come! | Dec 14, 2008 |
Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
I will give it some thought. I just really feel sad that big, professional companies are letting their clients define the company's payment terms. And what would happen if all agencies said "No, Sir, this is our payment term - take it or leave it."? Those clients have to get their translations somewhere - don't they?
You hit it right on the spot, Viktoria, as usual. Too many translators let agencies manage their prices and payment terms for so long, that the domino effect got there: now end clients want to manage agencies' prices and payment terms.
We have a saying in Brazil that "one dove doesn't make it summer". I don't know if it makes sense, i.e. if 200 doves actually would make it summer, nor if it has any equivalent in another culture/language, but I made up my mind to be that one dove.
Payment terms beyond 30 days will get a NO! from me, if anything. In the last few days I posted a comment on another thread here about an agency in France, which had posted a job. They pretend to be paying in 60 days, but their BB record says it's more like several months after those first two adter the invoice have elapsed. Meanwhile, their web site shamelessly advises prospects that full payment should be made upon placing an order.
All translators have a self-preservation mission: Drive such people out of business by starving them out of translators. If they get a translation from Uzbek to Papiamento, let them take a crash course in both languages and try doing it on their own!
Regarding rates, I don't see one thing in the world that is cheaper now than it was before. Why should translation services be the first to go down?
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José wrote:
We have a saying in Brazil that "one dove doesn't make it summer". I don't know if it makes sense, i.e. if 200 doves actually would make it summer, nor if it has any equivalent in another culture/language, but I made up my mind to be that one dove.
The same saying exists in pretty much all Western languages to my knowledge. In French and in Hungarian, the only difference is that the bird isn't a dove but a swallow. Are there swallows in Brazil?
José wrote:
Regarding rates, I don't see one thing in the world that is cheaper now than it was before. Why should translation services be the first to go down?
Spot on, as usual.
| | | | | My grocery had to close... :-( | Dec 14, 2008 |
"Your standard rate will be reduced by 6%." - hee, that's a good one. I will use it when I go grocery shopping tonight. Let's see what they tell me.
The grocery near where I used to live had to close down exactly because of that: customers decided to reduce the grocery's prices.
Customers didn't go and ask to pay 6% less but they just didn't shop there any more as they preferred the nearby supermarket, which offered lower prices.
I don't think the mechanics of prices is so different for translators...
Daniel
| | | | MariusV
Lithuania
Local time: 22:26
English to Lithuanian
+ ...
| Negotiation or just bullying? | Dec 14, 2008 |
I think those agencies which ALWAYS try to find reasons for cutting down the rates (already low) have a very good "reason" now - you know, this is blah blah blah, that is why we can offer only that, and you can take or leave it. About their clients - we never count what they get from their own (end) clients. Why shall we bother about it now? Our "contract" for the jobs is between us and the agency, so let them deal with their own clients on their own. This is their job and problem. Of course, re... See more I think those agencies which ALWAYS try to find reasons for cutting down the rates (already low) have a very good "reason" now - you know, this is blah blah blah, that is why we can offer only that, and you can take or leave it. About their clients - we never count what they get from their own (end) clients. Why shall we bother about it now? Our "contract" for the jobs is between us and the agency, so let them deal with their own clients on their own. This is their job and problem. Of course, renegotiation of the rates is a normal thing, like we offer rate increases, they can ask us to agree on some discounts. But it is the form that matters and if it is normal negotiation, it is negotiation, if it is bullying on a "take it or leave it" basis, let them go to hell. Shall we also write to our existing clients "You know, economy is bad, and on this basis I want to increase my rates we had for 3 years by 30 per cent, and to get money during 10 days instead of 30 days". Any reasonable person would think the translator overworked and no one will take it serious Same here (if vice versa). ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Comparing translations and tomatoes? | Dec 14, 2008 |
dgmaga wrote: Customers didn't go and ask to pay 6% less but they just didn't shop there any more as they preferred the nearby supermarket, which offered lower prices. I don't think the mechanics of prices is so different for translators...
Merchandise and services are two entirely different goods. Come on! I'm sure you know the difference between selling translations and selling tomatoes.
Just think of the reasons why the supermarket can afford to offer the same merchandise at cheaper prices. Then, try to apply that to translation. Does it still hold? Of course, cheaper translators will always exist. But you also get what you pay for. Translations and tomatoes - apples and oranges...
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| When Monday comes | Dec 15, 2008 |
José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote: Viktoria Gimbe wrote:
I will give it some thought. I just really feel sad that big, professional companies are letting their clients define the company's payment terms. And what would happen if all agencies said "No, Sir, this is our payment term - take it or leave it."? Those clients have to get their translations somewhere - don't they? You hit it right on the spot, Viktoria, as usual. Too many translators let agencies manage their prices and payment terms for so long, that the domino effect got there: now end clients want to manage agencies' prices and payment terms.
The word on the street is that in the case in point, the bean counters have emailed the translators direct, leaving the PMs out of the loop.
PMs have been phoning translators this weekend, been told the translator is reconsidering their position in the light of the rate reduction, and the PM has replied "what rate reduction?"
Things may become clearer on Monday...
(I stress this is second hand info, I don't work for them, but equally have no reason to doubt what I heard.)
The reasons for stuff happening are indeed many and varied.
Shakespeare wrote:ages ago
"There are more things in heaven and in earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Regarding rates, I don't see one thing in the world that is cheaper now than it was before. Why should translation services be the first to go down?
Petrol prices are considerably cheaper here than they were 2 months ago.
Not necessarily hugely relevant to the discussion, but you did rather throw down the gauntlet with that "one thing in the world" remark
It could also be pointed out that in relative terms, buying stuff from the UK (priced in GBP) is getting cheaper by the hour, practically, for people in the eurozone.
(Conversely, anyone here who needs to pay euros for anything is getting hammered, even though the actual price itself may not have changed by the even merest fraction of a eurocent. This could, but may not in this particular instance, apply to UK-based translation companies using translators based outside the UK.)
To sum up: gross generalisations and assumptions about the reasons for anything at all are bound to come a cropper at some point
[Edited at 2008-12-15 01:13 GMT]
| | | | | Lots of things are cheaper now than 10 years ago | Dec 15, 2008 |
Computers and technology in general are a lot cheaper (while presumably the instruction manual translation costs have gone up).
| | | | | Lots of things are more expensive | Dec 15, 2008 |
Basic groceries come to mind, and my rent, which has gone up 8% every year since I moved to my current area.
Has anyone been able to raise their translation rates 8% a year, every year?
And I would bet dollars to donuts that the next time the lease is renewed, they will ask for another 8% increase, "crisis" or no crisis.
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